Mellissa Villafranco guests to talk liberal feminism and trans and latinx representation in the pilot of the L-Word, Generation Q. Full transcript available here.
Mellissa Villafranco guests to talk liberal feminism and trans and latinx representation in the pilot of the L-Word, Generation Q. Full transcript available here.
Alexia : 0:00
Thank you for listening to Whatever, I'll Watch It, a podcast bringing queer of color critique to your favorite movies and TV. Each episode me and a guest will pick a film or television series we love or love to hate, and we'll talk gender, race, sexuality and all things representation. Because TV podcasts are way too fucking white. I'm your host, Alexia. And because this is the first episode ever of my podcast, I'm gonna take just a second to let you know who I am. So I identify as a queer woman of color. I'm polyamorous, an Aries sun, Leo rising, and Libra Moon, and I'm currently getting a PhD in anthropology and critical gender studies. I love watching TV and listening to podcasts about my favorite shows, but these podcasts are almost always white in terms of the hosts and the listenership. So I wanted to create an alternative platform where that voices aren't usually heard could be centered and uplifted. This week, I'll be joined by Melissa Villafranco, one of my very good friends. She's actually my birthday twin. We're both Aries suns, and she's also almost done with her PhD, but in ethnic studies. We will be discussing the pilot of the L word Generation Q, Let's Do It Again. Typically in this podcast, we'll be discussing a film or a completed season of television, but the reboot of the L Word is so iconic, and let's be real, so problematic that we could easily spend an entire episode just talking about the pilot. But before we get into it, Melli, can you please tell the audience a little bit about yourself?
Mellissa: 1:25
My name is Melli. I am first generation Salvadoran and identify as a lesbian, and I came out in L. A. So while I was watching the I word, I was like navigating all of that. So that's why the show has a pretty special place in my heart as fucked up and problematic as it is. Whatever, I'll still watch it though.
Alexia : 1:40
Should we get into the new season?
Mellissa: 1:42
I'm into it.
Alexia : 1:43
So, um, since this isn't a recap podcast, we're not gonna move through it chronologically scene by scene, like some other podcast do and what we decided is we're going to check in about each of the new and returning characters and hit on some of the plot points that we did and didn't like in the episode. Unfortunately for me, my list of things I didn't like will probably be longer. From just scoping on the internet, it seems like people are really happy, so excited about that last episode. Maybe because I just finished and it was my first time watching, I'm a little more critical. Yeah, but brace yourselves. This is a show about critique.
Mellissa: 2:16
Get ready.
Alexia : 2:18
So let's start with who we see first. Dani and Sophie.
Mellissa: 2:20
That sex scene! Why? Like it's hot pero why? Like I feel, um it's like trying to reel in the straight audience like we're gonna open with shocking lesbian sex. I don't know. It was very shock value.
Alexia : 2:37
I interpreted it as like hashtag we're woke now. Check it out, we have not just one but two women of color and they're having period sex! I feel like it's just supposed to be like, look at us if we show period sex, we're still the groundbreaking l word.
Mellissa: 0:00
How avant garde are we? I love period sex by the way.
Alexia : 0:00
Yeah. Under represented for sure.
Mellissa: 3:08
It's hot! I'm always super horny whenever I'm on my period, which is kind of tragic.
Alexia : 3:12
If they're trying to be shocking though, like that was the hand was not bloody.
Mellissa: 3:16
No, I honestly didn't even catch that until the second time I watched it. There's a lot of like subtleties, you know, like if you're not paying close attention, I missed it. But did you like the opening? Did you think it was enticing?
Alexia : 3:28
I think the first thing that, like I said with whoever I was in the room with, we were just like, well, it's on brand, you know, like, I'm not surprised at all that that's how the L-Word would choose to start. And I also think it's very like, like I said I think the fact that it was a black and brown woman it was clearly like, this is the generation Q.
Mellissa: 3:45
Guys, we addressed your racial concerns.
Alexia : 3:49
Um, okay, so then after the sex scene, we start to figure out Sophie really wants to get married.
Mellissa: 3:55
Yes, she does. She's going to propose in the first episode. I wanted more of a building, I think, before I got there to see, like the relationship with the father. Clearly, there's some antagonism. Perhaps he doesn't approve, assuming because he's a latino guy and he, you know, he even, like, degrades the relationship, your friend, but I wanted to see that build up. It was too fast for me.
Alexia : 4:17
Yeah. So how did you interpret the scene with the father? The parking lot scene?
Yeah, and that's where we get the inkling that he's like a homophobe, like incredibly unsupportive. I think that it's like there is the easily understood stereotype that latinx parents are very homophobic, but I actually think that there's a lot of silent acceptance that I would like to see more. I think it's really easy to say that immigrant people in general are homophobic, because the United States is positioned as a this democratic place of freedom, where you can come and be yourself in whatever form you come in and LGBT people are highly accepted. Therefore, the antithesis of that, the foreign POC immigrant is not that. It's not always the case, like being a Salvadoran person myself and talking with other latinx people, it's mostly an initial disapproval, and then it's like a silent acceptance. And I would like to see that more than just the tired of narrative, these people are all homophobic. It's much more nuanced than that. And in talking to my mom, I think that there is queerness in their world for an older generation of immigrants that if they were in different circumstances or had different language, might actually find that in themselves, that they have queerness, that they have experienced same sex desire. So I wanted more from that. I think that was the insinuation that he's gonna be like that. But I hope that the relationship is more complicated. I really do.
Alexia : 6:02
Yeah, and we haven't yet seen any reference to Sophie being latinx, but the actress is, afrolatina.
Mellissa: 6:07
Sophie is Dani's partner, right? Yeah, absolutely. When she says her last name, I was like, Is she afrolatina? Maybe she's the person that I am waiting for a good representation besides Tasha and Papi. Perhaps. And she seems to be the most like, authentic character, like she's not hitting you over the head with I am latina, Nunez with the tilde and the accent, like she was just herself. And I think that's when that authenticity is when POC characters are more successful on TV. Don't hit me over the head with it.
Alexia : 6:39
Yeah, and when we get into Sophie as a character I'm excited to talk about her, too, and my hopes for her. Yes, I'm hoping that she will solve some of these problems. Well, I guess, one more thing I kind of want to say about the coming out narrative. I would love to see what you're talking about, the silent acceptance. I also will not be surprised if we don't see that, because the coming out narrative is just so strong and so powerful in the US as like the type of queer visibility that we need. And I'm thinking, too, about like homonationalism and the way that often the U. S. can justify its imperialism by saying, Look, these queer people can't be visible where they're living, That must mean that they're oppressed and they need some sort of liberation from our army to be queer the way that we are, right?
Mellissa: 7:30
Yeah. Actually, you know, like when I when I told my mom that I was a lesbian and it kind of rippled through my family and my brother when I told him he was like, You shouldn't have said anything. You should have just kept it to yourself. And that really fucked with me because I was wondering if I had conformed to the pressure of coming out because I was radicalized in the States. And I came out a college campus and that all informed how I moved. But I really do wonder a lot like what might be different if I had chosen to come out in a way that made sense to me, because I definitely remember feeling really pressured. Like I need to tell her. I need to say this aloud so that I can feel free in some ways but it made my relationship really complicated, and I don't necessarily regret it, but I often wonder, what would a different coming out experience look like? That's not you know the closet narrative type of shit.
Alexia : 8:21
Well, let's talk about Carmen then, because when she comes out, I don't know which family member, but someone says, Why did you have to say that? You're being so selfish.
Mellissa: 8:28
Her sister, at the dinner! I remember that shit.
Alexia : 8:31
And also, I mean, she's bringing Shane around like, fucking look at Shane. It seems like her family knew what was up.
Mellissa: 8:37
Again. The silent acceptance. Don't play like you think Shane is just her friend. No me mames. Her character really frustrated me, it really frustrated me. First, she's an Iranian American character.... An Iranian American woman playing a Latina character.
Alexia : 8:55
Iranian Spanish, right? She has a parent from Spain. Not latina, but she has a Spanish parent.
Mellissa: 9:00
I didn't know that. That lessens the blow a little bit because perhaps she grew up speaking Spanish, or learned it later in life or was around it. Her Spanish is absolutely horrible, but I think that the, um, a lot of the family scenes were really cringey because the way that the mom reacts felt a little unrealistic to me. And that's not to say that there is a very real threat of coming out and then being called a puta and a callejera and being kicked out of your house. But I really feel like if it fell into that trope of a completely unaccepting family and clearly that family was accepting, like Shane was at that table. And again, the silent kind of knowing. She was probably my least favorite character because of the the hyper sexualization of her, de la Pica Moralez.. no one has de la Pica as a last name, that literally means from the spice.
Alexia : 9:58
She's spicy! Don't you know?
Mellissa: 10:00
For all that latinx people listening, how many times have you been told that you're fucking spicy? Like, Are you really gonna give this woman her last name to be de la Pica? [laughs] Ain't nobody got that last name! But, you know, do you think that Dani is perhaps a step ahead in terms of like doing an accurate representation of latinx lesbian characters?
Alexia : 10:25
Well, I think that this it gets sticky when we say accurate, right?
Mellissa: 10:29
Yeah, of course. That's a good point.
Alexia : 10:30
Yeah, because I'm sure she represents a certain type of Latina.
Mellissa: 10:34
That's true, right? Just not the one I would kick it with!
Alexia : 10:37
But not the one that you would expect from a show that's purporting to be the queer generation. So kind of hitting on that, if this is generation q, that would be like a new queer generation, right? What do you think of them opening the first episode with a proposal?
Mellissa: 10:54
Oh, we're back at Prop 8 again. Fuck. I thought we was done with the marriage shit. I don't know, you could read it as homonationalism. Like making the show more palatable for again, like I'm not sure if they're even trying to bring in a straight or like, other than audience, but it was a little cheesy to me. That's why I feel like I needed to have a build up because it was... I don't know. I just didn't like it at all. I think it was way too fast. What was your take on it having opened with marriage?
Alexia : 11:25
I agree. I feel like to me, it just really felt strongly like they were trying to throw back to the pilot of the first season of the L Word. So the scene where the proposal actually happens reminded me so much of in the first season of the L Word. When Bette comes in, she's in a rage, she had the worst fucking day, and Tina's sitting there quietly with the dining room table all set with the positive pregnancy test. They're very early on like, this is the couple. This is gonna be the foundation of the L Word. And I feel like they were really trying to mirror that in this episode, to let us know like this is the new couple. This is gonna be the new home base, the new foundation of this season.
Mellissa: 12:02
That's a great analysis.
Alexia : 12:03
But I think you know, I'm not someone who's gonna be like, Oh, if you're married, you're not queer. Whatever, do what you want. But it is a little disappointing that they would have to be married as a way of showing their commitment for us to see them as like the foundational base of everyone else. As having that sort of stability in their relationship.
Mellissa: 12:21
I like your analysis because then it reframes that house. I was a little confused about the dynamic of the house. It seems like there's three people total that are living there. And I couldn't tell if it was in close vicinity to like any of their people's houses, because I recall from the first iteration of the L Word that Bette and Tina live right next door to Shane and Jenny. So in that way I agree that it's disappointing that there there has to be a marriage to legitimate, that there is a new home base. I'm just curious to see, how it pans out throughout the show. We shall see.
Alexia : 12:58
The voicemail, at least was cute.
Mellissa: 13:00
I thought it was cute! Sitting in her car, like we've all been there. You had a long ass day and You have a message from bae just like fuck yeah, I love this person.
Alexia : 13:09
The thing I really couldn't get behind with the proposal is like Sophie enters, she's had a bad day, she's ranting, and Dani it's just like girl, read the room! Like what the fuck? You didn't even let her like pee, like maybe she has a full ass bladder and you're about to pop this question. Yeah, it just seemed really self centered to me. She was more prioritizing her, wanting to do this over, like maybe my partner would rather be in a different headspace before we have this conversation.
Mellissa: 13:33
She should have given her more time to decompress and actually express so in that way I'm now seeing her as the new Bette, perhaps.
Alexia : 13:42
Also, when her partner hesitates, she uses like business negotiation tactics. She's like, Please. Marry me, please. With like the same intensity when she's like coaching the dude to like, don't blame us for your son's death.
Mellissa: 13:58
That was so horrible.
Alexia : 13:58
Yeah, let's get into Dani. We're already there.
Mellissa: 13:59
Let's fuck Dani up. I'm not okay with Dani Nunez!
Alexia : 14:03
Why not? What's wrong with Dani Nunez?
Mellissa: 14:05
I feel like I'm repeating myself in some ways, but you're hitting me over the head that she's latina. I fucking get it. What really got me was when I was talking to you, and you told me that as the father and her walking to the car after her long day of being a fucking corporate troll...
Alexia : 14:21
The sign?
Mellissa: 14:21
The last name Nunez Corporation, we will suck your blood or whatever it fucking says. So I looked up why does Nunez in that sign have the tilde and the accent on there? Because I've never seen that, I've only seen Nunez with the accent or the tilde over the n and so I Googled the etymology cause a bitch has her receipts, and I saw that it's the Catalonian spelling of Nunez. So in Catalonia, aka Barcelona, the region of Spain that has been trying to secede for decades at this point, that is the etymology of that spelling of Nunez. So I think what I wanted to see from a Latina character in the show was someone who was Mexican or Central American in real life, and I don't really get a sense of how Dani necessarily identifies. I see more of her like corporate business world, and so that's also because we you know, first episode, I haven't seen the family. We don't get to see the dynamics that Carmen did throughout the season, But I wasn't a fan in that way, because I feel like the show deserves to have a Mexican or Central American queer person, lesbian, femme, boi, what have you, on the show. And I feel like Dani is a Spanish corporate diversity poster person. But I'm just in general, really critical of latinx characters because I've seen cultural production that does it right, so I know it's possible. What I'm thinking of in particular is a movie called Mosquita y Mari, directed by Aurora Guerrero who was Salvadoran and it's set in Huntington Park in Los Angeles, and the entire cast is people that are from there or are Mexican and Central American and live in L. A. She incorporated, she exposed the community to cinemaphotography and videography and had people from the community actually functioning on the production team. So there's just things that I feel like, if this is a show, that's a homage to L.A., if you're gonna show MacArthur Park, you need to show me Central American characters, especially on this show. Yeah, so that's why I don't like her.
Alexia : 16:30
Yeah, I tried looking up her ethnicity, and I couldn't find anywhere like where she's from. I did see some articles that said that there are Latina actresses playing Latina characters, so I'm assuming she's latinx from that. Okay, but if she is, that makes it even weirder that they made her character seem to actually be of Spanish descent instead of Latina, especially because we know now that there are two Latina writers for the show, who are both Central American.
Mellissa: 16:59
That's mind blowing. Mind blowing!
Alexia : 17:00
Can we talk about Dani's class privilege for a second? There were two moments that I just, like died. The first is when she goes to talk to Bette, and it's like, oh, you work for your dad and she's like, yeah, I have a degree from here and from here.
Mellissa: 17:18
From Stanford and USC and maybe it's nepotism but whatevs.
Alexia : 17:23
It's just like girl like what kind of like super fucking rich daughter of a pharmaceutical CEO doesn't go to one of those schools? Like we know that you don't have to be smart to get into the ivy leagues or whatever. It's usually that you're fucking rich, you have connections. So I thought that was hilarious, that she's like, Oh, I went to these nice schools, like where else would you go, like that was your destiny.
Mellissa: 17:45
Don't play like you weren't gonna be brought up in that.
Alexia : 17:47
Exactly. And then at the end, she just waltzes into Bette's office. And she's like, I wanna work for you. Like girl. Did you see a job posting? Like, is this how you've just been trained? You think that, like, with your connections, you just walk into a room and say, you want a job and you get it? And it looks like that's what happened.
Mellissa: 18:06
I think she's really intimidated by Bette as well. And that's why she had to bring up her accreditation. And it could also be like an age thing because I also experienced being like a young woman of color that I have to kind of like, dress like a professora!I have you to you know, Doctor Villafranco! You know, to show I know my shit.
Alexia : 18:26
You know, let's talk about Sophie because we both have higher hopes for her. Okay?
Mellissa: 18:31
I want to hear what you have to say about her, so for sure. What makes you hopeful?
Alexia : 18:35
Okay, So my moment of hope for Sophie is also related to my critiques of Finley, which will get into in a minute.
Mellissa: 18:41
I don't like Finley.
Alexia : 18:43
We'll get there! Okay, I'm hopeful for Sophie for a scene that I'm probably reading into too much. But we only have one episode, so I'm gonna let my interpretations run wild. So Finley's driving the golf cart. Inexplicably, she is both driving and holding all of the coffees, and she is telling Sophie about her exploits of the night before. The first thing that she says is that there is a bartender who we're led to believe she's been crushing on for a long time. She finally broke up with her boyfriend, and she texted Finley, you up? In response to that, she says, for you queen? Yaaasss. And Sophie says, Oh, you said it just like that? And then Finley talks about how she spent the night, her car wouldn't start and she steals the bike and you see Sophie kind of like scrunch up her face and keep listening. And then she kind of smiles, and it's like all we get of her and what I want to read into these tiny moments, even though I'm sure it's not what the fucking L word intended in the writing of her character. Number one, I love to imagine that Sophie is like, Oh, you said it just like that because I'm hopingwe're getting some awareness of fucking appropriation here. Of black queer culture.
Mellissa: 19:48
You, a white woman, really gonna talk like that?
Alexia : 19:50
Yeah, and how ridiculous it is for her to just be, like, spouting that. And the fact that she stole the bike. And she's just so casually telling her black friend with no thought for a second about the fact that, like, she can do that. And it could be a funny story.
Mellissa: 20:08
Yeah, because she's like the quirky white lesbian on the show.
Alexia : 20:11
Exactly. So I have hopes for Sophie based on that...
Mellissa: 20:16
You mean based on her, like slight criticism or inkling of this is not okay?
Alexia : 20:21
I wouldn't even say it's a slight criticism. I'm literally grasping at straws based on her facial expression because I want this so bad. On the other hand, it would be kind of fucked up for the L word to be like we're gonna make the afrolatina character the angry black woman, the feminist killjoy. She's gonna be responsible for correcting all of the wrongs of these white people.
Mellissa: 20:42
Meanwhile, Bette is never held to the standard.
Alexia : 20:44
So I hope we don't get that. But at the same time, someone has to do it. And let's be honest, it's often women of color and black woman who have to fucking do that work, you know. But my hopes for Sophie, I feel like we're really quickly dashed with the Kamala Harris moment.
Mellissa: 20:59
Oh God, let's talk about it.
Alexia : 22:12
I literally, I just have to recap for everyone who wasn't in the room when that happened. If you missed it too, let's go over it real quick. So basically Sophie is pitching a guest to Alice's show, and she says, I know Alice wants to keep it queer, queer adjacent, social, political. Alice, absolutely, horrendously says, who is it, who is it? I smell an Obama coming. Which.. ooof. Okay. And Sophie pulls out a picture of Kamala Harris. I'm not kidding you, I literally like clutched my chest. I probably like, punched my partner to my left. I looked around the room. And then we we rewinded it, we watched it again. We paused it and we just sat in silence for 20 seconds. We had to decompress.
Mellissa: 22:12
Kamala Harris. Her transfiguration shit of being like an incredibly heinous criminal prosecutor for her track record of criminalizing youth of color for truancy and, like, stupid petty shit like missing class, her inability to address police involved shootings. And now, come on, Harris is seen as a progressive prosecutor. How did that jump happen? And I think the jump happened because Kamala Harris is a woman of color. Kamala Harris is a woman of color, therefore she's fucking radical and we should have her on Alice Piazecki's show. It's really infuriating.
Alexia : 22:27
Yeah, absolutely. I think it says a lot about the L word and the way they're envisioning queerness. Where for them queerness is clearly about like an aesthetic. It's about consumerist practices. How do you dress and what do you look like? It actually has nothing to do with politics. Abolishing prisons, you know, ending homelessness, destroying capitalism. You know, it's are you brown? Do you have, like a side shaved haircut? Do you have piercings? Okay, cool.
Mellissa: 22:52
Then you're queer. Yeah, it's really tokenizing. And I think that if this is supposed to be the generation queer show that they would have to have much more nuanced and thoughtful conversations about candidates and people like Kamala Harris. It does a disservice, I think, to our entire community and the ways that we really pushed, not only like legal limitations, but also the limitations of our own community to think beyond, the state, police, et cetera, how do we become autonomous ourselves? I think that has always been at the core of queerness. And so to see that so blatantly absent is really unfortunate.
Alexia : 23:28
Anything else about Sophie before we tear Finley to shreds?
Mellissa: 23:33
Not yet. I think the consensus is we have hopes. We have hope. We shall see tonight when we watched the second episode.
Alexia : 23:39
Yeah. So I have so many reasons why I don't like Finley. What are your reasons?
Mellissa: 23:43
My reasons are the quirkiness of her character that allows her to blur boundaries. And it's supposed to be read as cute and funny. And it's not cute and funny. If someone walked in on me, I don't know the rapport, if maybe, like that's the type of house where, like you just kind of walking everyone's room whenever you feel like it. Bring your like social, high energy when your roommates are fucking. But I think she just is not someone that I would personally kick it with. I think that her lack of boundaries is really troubling for me.
Alexia : 24:17
Yeah, I agree entirely, Um, and I guess this is a good place to start my rant because I just read the lack of the boundaries as a complete, just like unchecked whiteness. I can talk a little bit more about that, but let's do a rundown of what we see of Finley in that episode. So first she steals a bike, which we talked about. Not only does she steal it, but then she then talks about it to her black friend like it's a funny story.
Mellissa: 24:41
Yeah, because she's edgy.
Alexia : 24:42
Second, she bursts into her friend's house. She yanks Micah off the phone, who is talking to a student. She interrupts Dani and Sophie, who are naked in bed, and she yells at the neighbor from the window in the bedroom. Later, she teases that she's gonna invite him in while Micah chases after her yelling, no! She goes over to Shane's house. She misses all the clues from Shane that she's not trying to socialize and then plops down on her roof and starts chatting. When Shane gets some texts, she asks, Who's that? What the fuck you literally just met this person, don't ask who they're texting. Towards the end of the episode, when the proposal is happening, she runs down the stairs and asks, Did you do it? Did you do it? Micah says, I told her she should wait, and Finley says, but it got quiet and I got nervous. So she literally doesn't care that she could be ruining her friend's surprise proposal because the fact that she was nervous and wants to know what happened matters more. And what is really mind.... I don't know if I'd actually call this mind-boggling, it's not surprising, but it's disappointing, that the number one response I've seen on the Internet, mostly from white folks, is how much they love Finley and thinks she's so cute.
Mellissa: 25:43
Why? Do you recall the reasons why, I can't even name one.
Alexia : 25:47
So the thing that I hear people say, it's just like, oh, she's so cute, she's so endearing and like the one thing I can understand that I want to say is like, this actress is really great. I think that she really infuses the character with a level of energy and authenticity that the other characters don't have yet. As much as she frustrates me, she is really engaging to watch on screen and like when she comes up like it's interesting. So I think that's why. And I think that, like white people just haven't had to experience those constant micro aggressions of what it's like to have someone who you know, constantly bursts into your space or thinks that what they have to say is more important than what you're doing in the moment. Maybe they have friends that do that, but obviously the power dynamic is different. It's not that same experience of having this happen to you over and over, not just with people that you have blurry boundaries with, but with like strangers.
Mellissa: 26:33
Endearing. Eccentric maybe, but not endearing.
Alexia : 27:32
Like this is clearly a pattern for her across the board, right? She acted this way with Shane, but I think it's important to remember that the majority of these interactions happen with people of color in their own house. So if we're supposed to believe that she's any sort of like a white ally or accomplice, you know, that's friends with people of color, she really needs to be aware of the amount of space that she's taking up, really be aware of, like respecting the boundaries of her friends. And also just like what it means that she's a white person. Like maybe don't open your window and, like, fucking shout at a black man moving into his house like that could be a fucking scary experience for a person of color moving into their house in a bougie ass neighborhood in L.A.
Mellissa: 27:32
I think what I understood from the interaction with her, like advocating on behalf of her seemingly shy friend is she's you know, has her friend's interests in heart. But she's ultimately being super fucking white about it. You can advocate for your friend to have, like a romantic, you know, without...
Alexia : 27:37
But Micah is not shy. He goes down there and he asked him out so like, she did not need to get in there.
Mellissa: 27:45
No, it's like, in Spanish it's matiche, it's like you're just getting into shit that you don't need to be getting into. Dejalo, let him do his thing and do it on his own terms. I don't know if you're getting, like, some sort of fire sign energy from her, but I do see a lot of brazen people that have best interests at heart and know that they have the confidence and exuberance to go ahead and just say something and do it. Um, but I think it could make introverts and I'm not saying that Micah is an introvert, but that's just like the typical relationship I see, really uncomfortable. So Finley is my least favorite honestly, in this GQ.
Alexia : 28:20
Yeah. Also if we want to go like the next step too in thinking about the racial politics with this I think it's relevant too that Micah is Asian American.
Mellissa: 28:29
Yeah, that's that's really nice!
Alexia : 28:32
But also it's relevant in terms of her, like stomping all over him and acting like he doesn't have a voice or the ability to speak for himself. Because, unfortunately, that those are the racial power dynamics we've seen in the U.S.
Mellissa: 28:43
Did we see an Asian American character on the original series?
Alexia : 28:46
I believe we saw one. It's the woman who, like attacks Tina for finding out that her boyfriend donated sperm.
Mellissa: 28:56
Oh, I remember! Cameo, cameo no mas.. You know just another reason why I think this show can do a better job of casting POC. Another reason... You mean to tell me you're living right next to Koreatown and you can't find.. I can't.
Alexia : 29:13
Let's say one nice thing about Finley. Finally we get some fucking armpit hair.
Mellissa: 29:17
Yeah, that was nice! I was waiting for that. I was waiting. I was waiting for the femme pit hair. Give it to me. I'm a hairy bitch. I want to see some representation. Representacion! That really made me happy. I like that. Again, it could be like the queer aesthetic is hairy armpits and blue hair and undercut, but I fuck with it.
Alexia : 29:40
Oh my god, undercut! Thank you. I could not remember the name. I'm such a bad queer. But, you know, I've never done the undercut.
Mellissa: 29:49
I did and I regret it. It takes so long to grow out. It's not cute. It wasn't on me. But all you who do have it, I fuck with it. I don't have anything positive to say about Finley. They bother me. They really bother me.
Alexia : 30:02
Okay, well, maybe there will be a tone shift when we talk about Micah.
Mellissa: 30:06
Yeah, because Micah is the third roommate. The Asian American character that we finally get.
Alexia : 30:12
Who's also trans.
Mellissa: 30:14
Interesting! I didn't know that. I didn't have too many thoughts on Micah because I didn't get a lot of screen time with them. And I just didn't really, like, take time to really think about their character. Do you have any thoughts?
Alexia : 30:28
I will literally gonna read you all the thoughts on many notes. First of all, we we know that he's a professor and from doing some research, he is an adjunct.
Mellissa: 30:37
Oh god, pobrecito!
Alexia : 30:39
So the first thing I think we really learn about Micah is he sucks at boundaries. You're telling me that this guy is a fucking adjunct and he's on the phone with a student talking about their grade.
Mellissa: 30:50
I missed that. I totally missed that.
Alexia : 30:53
Yeah so the very first scene, it's actually kind of cute, he's on the phone with a student, and he's like yes, that is a D. No. I won't tell your parents. This is college. Come talk to me in office hours. And then Finley yanks the phone out of his hands.
Mellissa: 31:06
I would never.. I have never called a student.
Alexia : 31:10
Maybe Finley was doing something good. She was like, you're an adjunct. What the fuck are you doing? Get off the phone.
Mellissa: 31:15
You need to have boundaries with your work because you're not getting paid for all these hours.
Alexia : 31:20
But I do hope that the fact that he's an adjunct like maybe we'll finally get to see economic realities, but also looking at his house like they live in a fucking nice ass house with the pool. With an adjunct salary?
Mellissa: 31:30
Unrealistic. Adjuncting for folks is, in academia it's essentially like a ladder. You know you've got tenured professors at the very top and adjuncting is essentially at the very bottom along with TAs. It's a really precarious position. You're often paid per class, which is really low. Sometimes it can be as low as $800 a month for teaching a whole ass class. And usually adjuncts have to teach at multiple universities in order to make rent. So it's ultimately very precarious. It fucking sucks.
Alexia : 32:03
Okay, So, back to my list for Micah. I have he's an adjunct. He sucks at boundaries. He sucks at carrying chairs.
Mellissa: 32:11
He fucked that window up! I'd be so embarrassed.
Alexia : 32:16
But like, this is part of the thing too like he's not this, like, meek Asian American character. Like he breaks the window, he still fucking comes back, asks him on a date, clarifies no, it's a date and is like, fix our house.
Mellissa: 32:29
I love that part. He could have easily just been like, Oh, yeah, all my friends were coming, but then he was like, No, that's actually not what I was asking you. So I like that we see self advocacy in that moment. I really like that.
Alexia : 32:40
Yeah. I'm excited to see what happens with him. I don't think that we got a lot.
Mellissa: 32:44
Yeah, I think he probably had the least screen time, honestly, compared to all the other characters, which is unfortunate because I didn't know that that's our only, like perhaps the only trans character, that we have.
Alexia : 32:55
We actually have a few.
Mellissa: 32:57
I can't wait! I can't wait.
Alexia : 32:59
We'll get to them. Anything else about Micah?
Mellissa: 33:03
I want Micah to fall in love in the series and have, like, a healthy love and learn how to build better boundaries.
Alexia : 33:12
Right? All right, then we finally get to Bette Fucking Porter.
Mellissa: 33:16
Bette Porter, mi amor precioso like, you know, I think if Bette went to intensive cognitive behavioral therapy for at least five years, I could get down with her. I really could. Because I resonate a lot with Bette in terms of having the desire to succeed at all costs. And I'm sure that, what we see of her relationship with her father before he passes away, he seems like a hard ass. It reminds me a lot of my mom like you must succeed. I'm giving you all the opportunities you can to do so. So you better do it. And so I see a lot of her emotional manipulation as a result of her own stunted emotional growth. Because she has been so focused on her career that I don't think she's ever really stopped to think about her internal, spiritual, mental senacion like cleansing. And she did that meditation retreat where she does that for a little bit. And we also see that she has a relationship still with Tina in some capacity, which is, of course necessary because Angelica, you know, there's a necessity to stay in touch. But I'm hoping that there might be a cameo of Tina, perhaps, and we get to see if their relationship has evolved in a healthier way because I think Tina was there for Bette when Bette was literally like shitting on her. Yeah, so I'd like to see some sort of resolution, you know?
Alexia : 34:48
Yes. Oh, Bette was terrible. Both to Tina and her assistant. Yeah. So we got to meet her new assistant. I sure hope she treats him better. He is the second trans actor of color and in the show.
Mellissa: 35:01
Oh, I remember the first guy with the spiky hair.
Alexia : 35:04
I could not remember his name. The only explanation for him is either he gets paid really well or he's like a fuckin degrade me ass sub. Like he gets off on the way he was treated because that's the only way anyone would stick around a job like that. Yeah, she treated him like trash. So unfortunately, we have to talk about Bette running for mayor.
Mellissa: 35:27
I was a little surprised at it because in leaving off in the original series, I didn't get the idea that the politics would be something that she would go into electoral politics. I didn't see that. I could see here continuing to ascend in academia and becoming a, you know, a distinguished professor or another higher up dean of some sort. But why do you think to make that choice for her to be running for mayor of Los Angeles to purportedly be the first after Garcetti, who's the mayor?
Alexia : 35:58
No, honestly, I think it makes sense. It really didn't surprise me, especially with the sort of political framework that we've seen from the show and like the way that Bette navigates the world and that she's navigated this election so far, it feels like she's such a politician. It makes complete sense to me.
Mellissa: 36:18
I see that.
Alexia : 36:18
And I know you had mentioned how she's so self-righteous but she's a capitalist, but that's every fucking politician, like which one of these motherfuckers aren't talking about homelessness as a crisis while living in, like, a three story house in L. A. You know, because they don't have a framework that says you're like, Oh, I have that house because I've been stealing the wages from my employees who get paid less, you know?
Mellissa: 36:38
Right, so for you, it makes perfect sense.
Alexia : 36:41
It really does. I was not surprised. I don't think that's gonna make it any easier for me to watch just all of the ridiculous liberal things she's gonna say. As an example, the government is meant to help protect the most vulnerable populations.
Mellissa: 36:56
When the fuck when has the government been set up to help the poor and most vulnerable? The government is set up to protect the privileged few. Don't play with me, Bette. You really think that the criminal justice system is about justice? This bitch be watching CSI and SVU thinking that they really give a shit about actually like prosecuting these whatever.
Alexia : 37:17
But, I mean, we have to remember like, this is a show that said Kamala Harris is our queer, queer adjacent candidate. I also want to touch base on the opioid crisis which apparently is gonna be a major theme of the season.
Mellissa: 37:29
It should be because LA is fucking drowning. My brother lives in downtown LA right next to the Last Book Store and it...downtown LA in particular no one used to live in downtown LA. Downtown LA used to be puro Skid Row, the alleys where people go to shop and it was mostly all POC. In the mid 2000s, we saw an explosion of lofts and luxury housing in downtown LA. The sky rises were constantly so-- Solange, cranes in the sky--filled with constant development. USC was a really big part of that in gentrifying the Figueroa and the Figueroa Quarter and purchasing several buildings in downtown L. A. and contributing to the literal, like rise of the skyline of downtown LA. So as a result, the opioid crisis in Los Angeles has become absolutely devastating. It is really common for me when I am visiting my brother to see just wretched fucking conditions. It's absolutely disgusting. People have to shit on the street. They live on the street. There are no shelters whatsoever. In the parts of L. A. where they used to be able to live, including Skid Row, continuously are gentrified. And so, folks are just getting pushed out to Koreatown in the outskirts of LA and so that's why in beginning our conversation with the snapshots that they show of L. A, when I think of L. A. I cannot help but think of the opioid crisis, the homelessness that is consistent in Santa Monica, in West Hollywood, in downtown L. A., in K town, all of the most famous places of L. A. That is the highest density of homeless populations. So I hope that maybe there will be some sort of like actual showing of that, and it's not that these people that are suffering from the opioid crisis, are just like ponds for your Bette's campaign, which is what it kind of feels like.
Alexia : 0:00
Yeah.
Mellissa: 39:23
Do you think that Bette will win?
Alexia : 39:24
Oh, I don't fucking know. I haven't even thought about it.
Mellissa: 39:26
I think if she has that manipuladora Dani on her team, I feel like she might. Yeah, you know, she clearly has a lot of political power, knows all the right people and even the PR or the campaign manager of Bette's was like, I have this meeting for you because this is the woman that you need to know if you want to make shit happen.
Alexia : 39:45
Well, okay. So yeah, In the next episode I saw a clip, we're gonna be finding out what are the skeletons in Bette's closet that Dani has to cover over. Are they gonna mention the fact that number one she kidnapped her daughter? And two, she very likely fucking murdered Jenny Schechter.
Mellissa: 0:00
You think Bette murdered Jenny!?
Alexia : 0:00
I think that's what the show heavily implies. I think the show was like, Was it Bette? Was it Max? Was it Tina? But the last time we see Jenny, she's having a conversation with Bette, where she's like I'll do anything to protect my family.I think that's what the show heavily implies. I think the show was like, Was it Bette? Was it Max? Was it Tina? But the last time we see Jenny, she's having a conversation with Bette, where she's like I'll do anything to protect my family.
Mellissa: 40:04
That's true. The villain.
Alexia : 0:00
So honestly, it's hard to even think like who murdered Jenny. It's like the writers don't even have a fucking answer because there seemed to be such little thought that last season. But we'll see. We'll see. So Bette has an election scandal.
Mellissa: 40:36
Is that really the skeletons that we're gonna see, like all of Bette's side pieces that she's been gathering throughout the years? I certainly hope not, he was also super trashy for doing that.
Alexia : 40:46
Yeah it was a lot. It was fucked up.
Mellissa: 0:00
Because it was consensual!
Alexia : 0:00
Okay, but this is the thing that I'm having a hard time with is what Bette is saying is it was consensual. We were adults. And on the talk show, that's basically what she says. But they completely gloss over the fact that was Bette's employee and she has a literal pattern of sleeping with people who are her employees or she's in positions of power over, and she just doesn't even mention that.
Mellissa: 0:00
The carpenter, the TA...
Alexia : 41:23
And now this! That's the part that's fucked up, like maybe she really needs to sit down and think like this is a pattern. It's a pattern. And what does this say about Bette's understanding of consent and boundaries?
Mellissa: 41:24
Abuse of power comes as no surprise for Bette Porter.
Alexia : 41:28
What did you think of her speech on the Alice show?
Mellissa: 41:38
I'm trying to remember what, exactly, she says. It's just like stock bullshitting. I will be the change. I will do better for the world. I can't even remember what the fuck she says.
Alexia : 41:40
So some of the most egregious things that she says, so first of all, like we said, she brushes over the fact that it was not just a consenting adult but also an employee. And Alice basically says, like you need to let them know, why does this matter to you? You know, you care about opiods, which we didn't touch on this, but Kit is certainly dead. I think she's a goner.
Mellissa: 42:08
Noooo. I don't want Kit to be dead.
Alexia : 0:00
So the other thing that Bette says, in the question of they want to know who you are, she starts this fucking list where she's like I'm a woman, I'm biracial, I'm a mother, I'm a daughter and she ends it saying, I'm all of you. Which going back to the Kamala Harris thing, is this really liberal understanding where, like all we need to know about Bette is that she's biracial, she's a woman, she's gay, and that means we should support her. And that's enough. That's enough. There's no discussion of like, what actions she's involved with, what she's actually done in the name of justice. And then, I think, the worst part at the end, she says, I might not be the perfect messenger, but I have the perfect message and at least for myself, I'm looking for who I like, who I want in a position of leadership, it's not someone who understands their message to be perfect. But someone who is open and receptive to feedback and
Mellissa: 42:59
their action, their involvement. That's what I look for because anyone can blurt out some shit about what you think your platform is.
Alexia : 43:06
What do you think about Angie?
Mellissa: 43:06
Angie!!
Alexia : 43:09
Right? Angie's like the one person I'm excited about.
Mellissa: 43:09
Angie vaping in the beemer! I was loving it.
Alexia : 43:12
With her edgy friend with a nose ring. That's how we know she's bad.
Mellissa: 43:16
I know, that fake ass nose ring.
Alexia : 43:18
It's so big!
Mellissa: 43:20
Yeah I was like, clearly you went to hot topic and got a fake nose ring.
Alexia : 43:23
So that is our other trans actor. And I'm hoping we'll get some trans lesbian representation.
Mellissa: 43:29
I'm so happy, me alegro mucho. I love seeing Angie grown up, whenever I first saw her on the screen I was like, ahhhhhh! Because I just see her as like baby Angie being kidnapped by her fucking mother, just, like, toted around with, like, all these lesbians in that little coffee shop that they went to. I like that that they allude to her potential queerness. Absolutely love that. I was thinking a lot about the pressures of being a young person. I have a niece who's 15 and she has tic toc, instagram like all of it. And there is a lot of pressure, I think, to present yourself in a certain way. And this is something our millennial generation has always dealt with. And so I'm not distancing myself from Generation Z and saying that this is new for them, like it's shocking, but it just made me think of like, what are the conditions of being like a 13 14 year old in 2019? That shit must be fucking hard. She's a little rebellious, and I like that. And I like that she's resentful towards her mother because I think Angie out of everyone in the world means the most to Bette. She went through great lengths to protect quote unquote her relationship with her daughter and, I think has used Angie to transpose and project her own traumas, which happens quite often. But we already see that her overbearing desire for Angie to succeed in school. And she's on the phone with Tina, at one point saying that she's in several AP classes and she's doing several extracurriculars. It makes me worry a bit for Angie's mental health, and I clearly see her on the track, too, of developing generalized anxiety disorder like I did and like a lot of youth of color who feel the pressure to perform well because their parents sacrificed or are higher achievers. Whether that's within our without, you know, academic accreditation. I'm excited to see what's up with her. I like her rebellion. Shit. I like her listening to like whatever thotty ass shit she was listening to in the car. And then that sweet moment on the bench. Do you think that they're gonna have a relationship together?
Alexia : 45:32
I don't know if the crash is gonna be requited, but I think they're definitely hinting at Angie being queer.
Mellissa: 45:39
Angie gave those googly eyes.
Alexia : 45:41
I am really curious to see how they play that if Angie is like, if she's coming to terms with her queerness, I think seeing her experience, that's gonna be interesting. And something I wrote in our show notes as we're thinking about this episode is, I think it would be really cool to see a teenager who has two moms also struggling with her sexuality because I think often like something that I have experienced myself in trying to talk about my queerness or my polyamory with family members and like my fear in talking about it, the response, may be something like, why? why do you think we would care? And I think it's important people remember that even if your family is accepting there's still so much, I don't even wanna call it internalized homophobia, you know, for myself, I don't think that I'm like, ashamed. But when we're surrounded all the time by the fucking trauma of our community, what so many people go through, it's hard not to take that on and take that and have that shape, your own experience. So I like the idea of them showing Angie dealing with this stuff, even though she's gonna be very embedded in lesbian communities. And I'm curious, too, if Jordi's character is going to be trans. You know, the actress is trans and I also like, I hope we don't get just one trans woman character who is a is a youth, although I think the representation is interesting. But I think one of the major disservices in the first run of the L Word is not having any trans women in the show other than I would consider Lisa. She was not written as a trans woman, but I would consider her to be. But especially I'm just like, when I think of the lesbians I know so many of them are trans. So that was a major oversight in the first run.
Mellissa: 47:24
Poor Max.
Alexia : 47:24
Oh, my God, let's not even go there. I loved what you mentioned though about the pressure that Bette puts on her. I feel like I didn't really catch that. Like, I think you're absolutely right. I think for me I was just kind of like, damn, Angie's badass that she's doing all these things and she's like having fun and letting off steam. But I think you're right. I think we're gonna see the toll that takes on her. I also really love the way they depicted her relationship with Bette. I felt that their fight scene was really realistic. And then I loved at the end of the episode, they come together and they watched their show together. Yeah, I thought that was really sweet.
Mellissa: 48:02
Yeah, and the opening scene when Angie runs downstairs to leave for school and doesn't say goodbye to her mother, I was like, Oh, girl, you better turn around and say goodbye you know, seeing that, like the joking gaity of their relationship, is really sweet. I like that a lot.
Alexia : 48:19
See, that was something that I was like, who the fuck who would do that?
Mellissa: 48:22
No brown kid would ever fucking do that.
Alexia : 48:24
I just think a lot of the takes I've heard on that scene is that it was like cute but for me I'm just like that felt like totally weird writing. Like who does that? Anyways, let's talk about Shane. I'll let you start because I know that you have an affinity for Shane.
Mellissa: 48:38
do have an affinity for Shane. I think that Shane is misunderstood. And I think that if Shane had a poly friend, that they would be much happier with their life than someone who doesn't pathologize their desire to be with, you know, to not be able to just be one person all the fucking time. That's real. That being said, there's a track record of Shane's that I don't fuck with. I don't like that Shane ghosts. I don't like that she doesn't communicate whenever they feel like they need, like, alone time or pause. Like to disinvest from a relationship to retreat to oneself. They have a really difficult time, I think communicating that, and as a result they come off like a fuck boy. The bad boy image, I think, is why they're so attractive, because that's the type of estilo that they exude. So, overall my opinion of Shane, I think I root for them. But in this season, I didn't like the flat, hyper sexual... I don't see any growth like all the other characters have this enormous, Bette is now running for office. Alice has her own fucking show like they all have these young queers that are doing work for them. And Shane is still just fucking biddies, like, Come on, I want to see some development because I feel like Shane, they did so much with Shane's backstory in their upbringing, being in foster care, and then when they're brother comes in, there is just so much and so I felt a little disappointed because it's like, really, that's all you got for me? Some sex scenes and boxing shit?
Alexia : 50:13
I think we're led to believe that Shane is married, but that she's currently separated or getting divorced from her partner.
Mellissa: 50:14
Oh so she's not married. And she's happily having consensual sex with people, right?
Alexia : 50:18
But some of the tensions you're bringing out and I think are interesting and also confusing where like she is consistently the best friend in the show. She gives solid advice, very good at listening. But then all of those skills breakdown in her relationships, which is kind of weird.
Mellissa: 50:35
Oh, those skills break down in her romantic relationships.
Alexia : 50:37
Right in her romantic relationships she's unable to communicate. She no longer can give good advice, she no longer is rational, like all of those skills just kind of disappear, right? So I'm hoping maybe there's been some growth where we can see her applying some of those skills, but also based on her saying, I'm not gonna talk to my ex. Probably not much has changed.
Mellissa: 50:55
Yeah, and then that's the case for polyamory, perhaps never really working.
Alexia : 50:59
Let Shane be polyamorous!
Mellissa: 51:05
But Shane can't communicate shit. Can you imagine Shane trying to juggle like one live in partner and two other girlfriends?
Alexia : 51:12
But if she literally just took the skill set that she has in her platonic relationships and applied it to her romantic ones, she'd be set. She's a great communicator.
Mellissa: 51:21
What do you think the disconnect is that... is it because it's a monogamous like it comes with all these certain, like I'm being tied down, like those skills just get thrown out the window? Why? How is some person capable clearly exhibiting communication on that level and platonic relationships?
Alexia : 51:37
I feel like the writers have this, like, fucked up way of dealing with trauma where it's like...
Mellissa: 51:45
Yep, back to Jenny.
Alexia : 51:46
It's like Shane's father couldn't respect women and ran away. So she has inherited the trauma and has to do the same thing, and she can't grow. Yeah, I think it's just the way the show deals with people who have, like fucking pain, who have history.
Mellissa: 52:00
That's true. I forgot when the guy comes and it's like they're both cut from the same cloth, or whatever. He's a fuck boy. But I agree what we see of Shane in this episode is pretty disappointing. I was hoping to see more growth. They get off a plane, they have sex, they get a bed and they hit a boxing thing. Do better, Shane! You have the skills. It's time to unleash your destiny.
Alexia : 52:24
We have one person left. We actually skipped her. I think she shows up before Shane. So sorry, Alice.
Mellissa: 52:32
You start with Alice, you also just finished watching the original series.
Alexia : 52:36
So, yeah, I did. So in the first run Alice is one of my favorite characters. She's one of the few I can see myself being friends with, but then kind of with every other character that I liked starting around season...well, actually, the beginning of season three, her whole weird thing with Dana was terrible where she's like, trying to run her off the road. Um, there's just inconsistent writing. So there was inconsistent writing moments with Alice. But she seems the most realistic, like the one that I'd be most down to, like kick it with. But then, like her, her weird, uh, her transphobia, her biphobia, her fucking racism, the whole racism around Papi was terrible.
Mellissa: 53:11
Oh, my god, and the way she says Papi. Just shut up like, put some effort into it.
Alexia : 53:19
Yeah so it's a strained love. Yeah, as it is with all these characters. But in this new pilot, I'm fucking obsessed with her fashion. I have in my notes, the jumpsuits? Amazing. Her glasses? Amazing.
Mellissa: 53:34
You'd look fine in a jumpsuit like that, with your black boots. That'd be hot.
Alexia : 53:34
I can never find one that fits my body, but thank you. So yeah, I love the jumpsuits. Love her glasses. Her little haircut with her little bleach blonde hair, her dark eyebrows.
Mellissa: 53:52
Her wife's ex wife or her girlfriend's ex wife. I know that's not Alice but I like that about Alice.
Alexia : 53:57
Yes, absolutely. Yes. So let's get there. Her new girlfriend she seems like really vanilla and neurotic. Kind of just like, quintessential white fragile woman is like the vibe I'm getting. I'm not a fan so far, but I'm glad she exists so that we can see her fucking ex wife. Hot damn.
Mellissa: 54:15
Yeah, her ex wife, I need to know her name on the show because first of all, we get some. I don't know. She's speaking Arabic or Farsi.
Alexia : 54:26
Farsi, she's Persian.
Mellissa: 54:28
Oh, when she busted the Farsi out I was like, yeah, like this woman she's teaching her kids a new language. She's staying in touch with her cultural heritage. She's passing that on to her children, she doesn't want them to assimilate. And she is fucking flames. She's one of the hottest people on t he show.
Alexia : 54:44
Absolutely. Absolutely. That fucking power suit that, like, makes Bette's power suits...
Mellissa: 54:51
I shiver. Bette needs to go to bed.
Alexia : 54:55
Yeah, make space for this beautiful woman, with her big dyke energy.
Mellissa: 55:02
I'm ready for the new story. Let me let me hear it.
Alexia : 55:02
So related to Nat, I I really like that they're showing that Alice is, like, not really into being a mom. She curses in front of the kids.
Mellissa: 55:11
Why is she even with her?
Alexia : 55:17
Well, I think she just, like, you know, probably fell in love with this woman, and she has kids, and she's like, Well, this is fine.
Mellissa: 55:17
She just seems really vanilla from the the type of person that Alice is and dates it really surprised me.
Alexia : 55:25
I agree. It doesn't make sense yet. But I do like that they're showing some representation that, like not every woman wants to be fucking parents. Yeah, that's like... even people giving birth to children don't always want to parent those children, like it's a complicated thing. This idea that, like, you know, it seems you hold your baby in your hands, you're gonna fall in love and loving parenthood. Apparently, that's not actually true of a lot of people's experiences. And I know Alice didn't give birth to these kids. But still, I like that she's grappling with those tensions there. I don't think they're gonna stay together.
Mellissa: 55:58
No, I hope that she breaks up with her, and starts dating her ex wife so that we could see her more.
Mellissa: 56:04
Oh God. Or how about we get to see her with other hot women of color? I'd much prefer that.
Mellissa: 56:09
Yeah, that sounds really messy, the situation I came up with. But Alice. I like her fashion. I don't like the black rim glasses sometimes. Overall, I love that she has a new TV show. I think that's really cool. She's clearly into, I think she was a speaker like on the view type of thing, right? And that was like her, her previous profession. So I like that she's really built a name for herself. She has essentially made it in L. A.
Alexia : 56:36
Yeah, so when she was a guest speaker, she basically ended up getting booted off because she brought queer issues into the show. And it seems like we're gonna revisit that tension again in this new season. The network wants to expand viewership. But Sophie says she's trying to keep it queer, queer adjacent social, political. So that's like a tension we'll get to see again. It will be interesting. Um, something I forgot to say about Sophie again. I don't want to, like, put all of the burden of social progressiveness on the black woman in the show...
Mellissa: 57:08
Yeah, Dani, step it up!
Alexia : 57:10
But I do hope that we get to see...this is not gonna happen, right. But this is my wish list. I would love to see Sophie kind of pushing back or responding to Alice's racism because she's consistently been pretty racist throughout representations we saw of her in the first run.
Mellissa: 57:24
Tasha's the first black girl she ever dated in her life.
Alexia : 57:27
Yeah. So if Sophie is like, you know, like her right hand person working under her, there's no way that there wouldn't in real life, be tensions between working for this like fucking rich ass white lesbian who wants to be progressive, who ultimately is probably gonna treat your workers like shit and underpay them, you know? So I hope that we get to see some of that tension. But it would have been cool if, like, I mean not gonna happen, but it would have been cool if they could have used these new characters as a way to, like, kind of meta critique the shortcomings of the 1st L Word like, via these new characters, we can see some of the problems of, like, classism and, like, whiteness in these characters. But it's not gonna fucking happen. Not with characters like Dani Nunez.
Mellissa: 58:07
Do you think that GQ will better address the transphobia that is so rampant in the first iteration of the l word?
Alexia : 58:15
That's a really good question. Like, are we gonna see character growth? Yeah, in those characters, who are so transphobic to begin with?
Mellissa: 58:21
Yeah. Yeah, Like what I think, what would it look like? to have a protagonist trans character that's actually in a nurturing environment that validates and heals and excites and does bring joy, you know, like it, that would be such a a stark contrast from Kit, you're giving up the most important thing in the world, you know, disgusting, fucking disgusting. I don't know. So I hope that maybe there might be retribution. Do you have high hopes? In some ways, it seems like they're bringing more class and racial issues to the table, and that's it for us to kind of bicker about.
Alexia : 59:03
I don't know if they'll be willing to take their like, beloved characters and throw them under the bus in anyway, because I think for the creators and writers, it means kind of throwing themselves under the bus as well. Like these characters were just channels for the writer's own biases. So I feel like taking accountability in the writing is like doing that for themselves, and I feel like it's like that's not gonna fucking happen. That would be really cool to see , but I don't I don't expect it like, I think that they're gonna hopefully try to write the trans characters better and kind of try to make up for some of the violences of the past in that way.
Mellissa: 59:39
Well for me, I think what is so cool in some ways about this GQ iteration, is that the trans characters were not being hit over the head with the fact that they're trans like trans is not the center kind of access of their identity and, of course, it's clearly integral, important. But we are getting to see them as people who have complicated lives and who aren't predicated by their transitioning or their trans identity.
Alexia : 1:0:08
I think it's interesting, and I think it's it's kind of a hard dilemma in terms of representation. It's like on the one hand, we don't want the transness of these characters to define them. With Max, it was all just like, let's make every one of his scenes about his transition and think about what is the most humiliating, oppressive, terrible aspect of his transition that we can pull out for these cis people to consume you know.
Mellissa: 1:0:31
Trauma porn.
Alexia : 1:0:32
Exactly. So on the one hand, I could see them wanting to make up for that by being like, Oh, they're just ordinary people. They're just regular people, which, like, yes, and also transphobia is fucking real. And there's, like, not just on the level of, like, you know, like Kit Porter doing those speeches, but like, systemic, you know, exclusions and violence against trans people. So I think it would be equally a disservice to be like, oh, you know, they're just Trans, but that doesn't matter. Yeah, you know, as it would be to just dwell in the violence. But that's that makes it a hard task to like, how do you balance that representation of like bringing to light some of these systemic issues without, like, making it trauma porn?
Mellissa: 1:1:45
I think there would be a potential opportunity to discuss the trans community activism around the opiod crisis in L. A. I know that so many trans and queer folks are on the ground trying to address that by creating autonomous housing networks or, um, short term housing, food, you know, basic necessity shit. So that could be an opportunity. Anything to maybe show like queer activism but you know, I'm not too hopeful.
Alexia : 1:1:45
Yeah, and as a side note too if, if there's any specific, like organizations or collectives doing that, work you'd like to uplift we can include links to donate or find out about their work.
Mellissa: 1:1:58
Sure, yeah, I'll do some research and send over some links.
Alexia : 1:2:01
Anything else about Alice? Oh, there's one thing I wanted to add about her. I did not catch this until the second watch, but when Alice comes back out, she says, Wow, that felt like a long hiatus. Like almost a decade, I thought that was so cute. You know, I don't know if that quite counts as breaking the fourth wall, but I like that little shout out to the fans who've been waiting. All right, so I think we hit a lot of these already. But let's talk about things that we didn't like that we haven't touched on yet and then we can try to end with things that we did like to end on a higher note.
Mellissa: 1:2:32
Okay.
Alexia : 1:2:33
Okay. So I think we already ripped this episode to shreds. I just have one last rant before we, um, wrap up. One of my friends, shoutout Marina not to be confused with the Marina from Jenny's awakening...
Mellissa: 1:2:47
I'll put Marina on my fuck list, by the way.
Alexia : 1:2:50
Oh yeah, she's a hot fuck for sure. So anyways, my friend Marina pointed out that one of her fears is that the show would be trying way too hard to be woke this season and that it ultimately falls flat because we know, ultimately, the show is created and written by a bunch of liberal lesbian feminists. So while we talked about this a lot already, I have a little consolidated list of the moments of hash tag wokeness.
Mellissa: 1:3:13
OK, lay it on me.
Alexia : 1:3:15
So number one Finley yelling time's up, jackass.
Mellissa: 1:3:21
I feel like that's something that people directly who work directly with Harry Weinstein say. It's very like I am a white actress.
Alexia : 1:3:30
Absolutely. I feel like the writers are like, how can we be hashtag relevant to political discussions? How about times up? It's very like Finley watches the news. Finley knows the hashtags. What a queer woman. Who says that if you're not..
Mellissa: 1:3:47
Nobody fucking says that. I feel like I've seen that in another movie though.
Alexia : 1:3:51
Because it's fucking Hollywood writers! Number two Bette, being upset at Danny for being a sell-out. Specifically, she says, I would expect this from a white straight man, but not from you.
Mellissa: 1:4:04
As if POC aren't walking around here with fucked up ass politics.
Alexia : 1:4:09
As if Bette Porter wasn't that fucking POC! From the beginning, we've watched biracial gay Bette Porter being such a capitalist. Tell me how, how, how, but also like it makes sense in this show that capitalism is not there, right? It's like we can kind of acknowledge racism by uplifting these women of color. But the class component has always been missing.
Mellissa: 1:4:34
Yeah, and they all live in, like bomb ass houses in Echo Park. Not real. That's like $3000 a month.
Alexia : 1:4:40
All right, number three Alice says, Okay, ladies and gentlemen and everyone in between.
Mellissa: 1:4:47
Hi, everyone, Period. That's all you have to say.
Alexia : 1:4:52
I think that what they're trying to do, they're like gender is not a binary. It's a spectrum and everyone in between on either side of the spectrum. If you're like, if you're thinking about a spectrum like there's masculine and feminine, everything in between that's still a binary motherfuckers. If this is how you're doing nonbinary inclusion, please just don't. At least Alice didn't come out and be like, what up y'all? Which, I wouldn't be surprised.
Mellissa: 1:5:22
I'm so glad no one said it's lit on this series. Well, time will tell, though.
Alexia : 1:5:28
Okay, so during the proposal, Sophie says rings are just a symbol of the patriarchy. But I still want one.
Mellissa: 1:5:34
So that for me is kind of like I can critique Nikes and have them as well. What did you dislike?
Alexia : 1:5:41
Um, I absolutely agree with you. And also the beauty of this podcast, like Whatever, I'll still watch it, you know? So, like, I don't want to hate on it too much for that. But for me, it was just such a moment that, like, really summed up the way the L word deals with politics where like they might kind of take a second like, this is fucked up. Then they're like, but we're not actually gonna critique it and we're actually gonna, like, be complicit and it made me think of what you talked about earlier about Tasha being in the military where we get, like, maybe one or two episodes where Alice is really critiquing the war in Iraq and critiquing the U. S. Army, but just like, whatever, I'll date you anyways and I'll stop talking about this because I want to fuck you.
Mellissa: 1:6:23
That's not being political. Like being political is actually asserting the types of ideas that you carry in living your life through that lens and everything that you do. And the romantic realm is the first place that you start for me, in terms of being politicized.
Alexia : 1:6:39
I think you hit the on why I didn't like that line because it felt superficial and shallow. Where, like I I think you are right that often like the first step is critiquing these really obvious signs of the patriarchy. But in thinking of like a thorough intersectional feminist framework, nothing in the pilot has shown us that any of the characters are walking around living a feminist life to use Sara Ahmed's words. So for me, that line felt very much like Time's up, where it's trying to signal a really shallow type of feminism where we haven't actually seen anything like, what have they done to, you know, smash the patriarchy?
Mellissa: 1:7:14
Yeah, that's my issue with campaigns like time's up is that they're very much so trendy and momentary.
Alexia : 1:7:20
We can cut Sophie some slack on that one.
Mellissa: 1:7:22
Yeah, I'm okay with that. I consent to that.
Alexia : 1:7:26
So what are your hopes for this season as it progresses?
Mellissa: 1:7:29
My hopes for the season are to see Los Angeles better fucking represented, you know, I feel like it's not the LA that I know and love. I don't go to only Robinson and Santa Monica Pier. And there's like, some moments where they were, like in Venice and shit. But I think that if you're gonna have POC taking a central role in the cast that you need to show the neighborhoods that they come from. Like no one that lives in downtown LA is from fucking downtown LA. Don't play with me like where are these people coming from. Like let me see, even if it's not in LA. But in terms of LA representation, I have much higher hopes that they're gonna do a better job of showing barrios. The only barrio that we got to see was Carmen de la Pica. You know, there was like chihuauas and cholos and shit. Inthis day, like, LA has a housing crisis right now. Like, show me where these people actually living. Yeah. What are some of your hopes?
Alexia : 1:8:32
Um, so most of them are around representation. I want to see some butches.
Mellissa: 1:8:36
Fuck yeah, where the butches at? Let me just say I fucking love butches. Butches were completely responsible for my sexual awakening. Also, Stone Butch Blues by Leslie Feinberg changed my life.
Alexia : 1:8:50
Fucking go read it right now if you haven't but also know that is fucking heavy. So take breaks and drink water. So butches, some fat people.
Mellissa: 1:8:59
They're all skinny and femme, lipstick lesbians.
Alexia : 1:9:02
Also bigger nipples. I'm tired of these skinny white girls with tiny little nipples and areolas. Hello. Something like bigger than the size of a quarter please. So some butches, some fat people. One thing that will be exciting, let's see how it's handled, they are gonna add on a disabled actress named Julian Mercado. She's gonna play Sophie's little sister who is an immigration attorney. So we'll see. I was actually really surprised that Jodi was included in the first season. I thought that was really cool. I did think it was weird how sometimes they would caption her signing, and sometimes they wouldn't. Yeah, um, the fact that no one learned how to sign other than Bette, except for Shane, which was not surprising since she's always a good friend.
Mellissa: 1:9:50
And Angie! Angie was signing.
Alexia : 1:9:52
She was an infant, and she knew! And speaking of people who were done dirty, fucking Jody. I love that she challenged Bette, she was a strong character. And then as soon as it was inconvenient for the storyline, they made her another person Bette trampled on.
Mellissa: 1:10:12
I really like Jodi's interpreter. I really liked that Jodi's interpreter constantly taught hearing people how to interact with deaf people. You don't look at me, she's talking to you, talk to her and I'll translate.
Alexia : 1:10:23
Is he the first hashtag ally we've seen on the L word?
Mellissa: 1:10:27
I think perhaps. He's so cute. He's just like cruising guys. Cutie pie. I thought he was great.
Alexia : 1:10:34
Like, what does it say about me that I'm like this, like, queer dyke watching the l word and all my favorite sex scenes, honestly, it was like Max and that fucking dude in the bar. I'm like, I'm here for the boy on boy.
Mellissa: 1:10:47
That was hot! Oh Max and that.. I forget his name. The eccentric British guy.
Alexia : 1:10:47
Was it Billy?
Mellissa: 1:10:53
Yeah that was hot. And then I feel like Billy really introduced, was that friend that Max fucking needed. But, you know, in some ways, with, like, the substance introduction, not so much, right. I feel like they were supportive in some ways.
Alexia : 1:11:04
It also to me felt like one of maybe the more authentic moments about some trans people's experiences, where transition can make your sexual orientation shift around. Everything gets absolutely, you know, so I like that, too, that, like Max, not only explored his gender but also his orientation.
Mellissa: 1:11:22
Yeah, that was really important when I was watching it because I had a partner at the time who had transitioned and was no longer attracted to women at that time, and it was really hard, like I was like damn transitioning happens on so many realm. As a really young femme I was still like learning how to exist in romantic relationships. So I think that's why I come back to the show because there is some moments when I was a baby queer that help me unpack or like formulate an opinion, and especially in the most fucked up parts of the show, is when I feel most strongly about my opinion, and I like that I like that a show can elicit a sense of myself in like what I think is just like right in the world. You know, it's a starting point like media is there for us to build upon. It's never gonna be perfect. And I don't want it to be because, well, I would like to see some bomb shit, but I think that productive conversations can come from all of the shortcomings.
Alexia : 1:12:20
Well, Melli, would you still watch it?
Mellissa: 1:12:27
Hell yeah I'm about to get another glass of rose and watch it now.
Alexia : 1:12:48
Yeah we're literally about to watch the next episode. But you will probably hear us again. I think we'll probably end up doing another l word episode at the end of the season. But it just felt important to check in at this crucial moment.
Mellissa: 1:12:48
Yeah, because everyone else is giving their opinion and a whole lot of them be white.
Alexia : 1:12:50
They're white as fuck!
Mellissa: 1:12:58
I need to stop bitching and just start doing so that's what we're doing. Hell, yes. Thank you so much. Thank you. I'm excited to listen to wherever your podcast go. Expose me to new shows so I stop watching Sex and the City.
Alexia : 1:13:06
All right, that was the first episode. Please subscribe and give me a good review so other queer brown babes and killjoys can find and enjoy the podcast, too. If you want, you can follow me on Twitter at whatevertvpod. You can also send me an email at whatevertvpod at gmail dot com, and we can continue the conversation there. I'd also love to hear your thoughts, questions or hear what other TV shows or movies you'd like an episode on. hope to hear from you and thank you so much for listening.